Q&A #6 – What’s Your Favourite Public Server?

Tuesday evening, time for another episode of our Q&A series! This week, we wanted to know from our participants which public  server(s) they prefer playing on and why.

<Agalloch> Well, in the past it was ogros regen server, because i loved regen capture mode and it was the first mode i played. PSL1 is almsot dead and i dont play on public servers anymore, even i visit it sometimes. The only servers i play are psl2-4 with mix teams and mix modes.

<Narwhaal> I like to just sit and idle on Demophobia, since the players there are usually fun to talk to and I can excercise my master powers by making sure no one does anything they shouldn’t. Aside from Demo, I also like the racing servers, since I can get together with lots of people and have fun chasing a target.

<Fatality> I think it goes without saying that it’s psl1. It not only has been around forever, along with its admins, but said admins are also intelligent, mature, and know what the fuck they are doing. They also do a nice job with eliminating shit maps from the rotation as well as their player name and clan tag protection and stat system. Everything is just well done and professional, like a server should be. I also think the no-bullshit vibe keeps away a lot of shitkids and annoying trolls.
Turning to a similar topic, it is sad that psl 1 is dead or dying due to this trash server “Demophobia.” As if Sauer wasn’t already on the brink of death before they came around, they basically open up (at first) a 128 slot server where any noob, troll, or idiot can go and do whatever  they want. Of course this is appealing to what makes up more or less 70 percent of the community. They have since reduced the slots to 30 but refuse to go any lower and it is killing the variety of servers. Their favorite excuses? “There are times when our friends want to play and can’t because the server is full” “If you don’t like it, GO PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE!”

<Buck> Demophobia: Provides a good server for people just looking to play and talk with their friends, almost comparable to a go-to server to meet people. “Noobs” come quite often, and learn to form their basic skills on this server quite well. Although the server itself has some issues, it is very popular because it offers some features including full stats database, which is accessible in-game, demo recordings, and a user friendly forum for anything that needed.

Buck’s opinion about PSL:

Although it may not be the best user-friendly server, i believe it has some features that no other server has. First of all, it has (In my opinion) one of the best names/stats login of any other server on sauer. Simply just bind a key with your password, then not only no one can take your name, but also you can enable your stats only if you want. Otherwise you can play under a different name, in case if you don’t want to use your regular. Also with the login feature, if your not logged in, your stats will not be recorded (must use unused name though). What is nice about this is that the stats database of psl is not overloaded with a bunch of different player’s names. This way only registered members would be able to have this feature. I also like their idea of two separate scoreboards, one with player stats (Frags, kpd, accuracy, deaths) and one with team stats (Points, wins, losses, ties). This is a great feature that can really help players of the server strategize their games by knowing which players are the best with which category, whether it be flag running/scoring, camping, sniping, or defending. The only thing I find unfortunate about their server is the fact that you cannot check your stats daily, weekly, monthly, or total in-game. Only your current game stats.

<Rosine> Is this some sort of trick question? As PSL and ogros.org admin I mostly enjoy playing on our servers of course :)

a) Historical reason
Even before I was trusted (let alone admin) I played on PSL most of the time. Not because I disliked the other servers / communities but because PSL and ogros.org were the servers with the most players on back than. Hmmm… it wasn’t just the amount of players but although their skill… and maybe more important: the community that evolved around the PSL (Premier Sauerbraten League). HaHaHa… I remember hanging around with people from }JG{ (Sargatanas, ulului, …) and }TC{ (Ninja, Selinux, …) and [tBMC]ztk in mumble nearly every night. That was pretty cool. We had a lot of fun!
Nowadays things have changed. Especially PSL1 is without a single player large parts of the day. People still seem to love our duel-servers PSL2 – PSL4. As I wasn’t a big regen capture fan until lately I can’t say if something changed on the ogros.org servers but at least oo2 seems to be “crowded” most of the time. No?

–> tl;dr: because I always played there

b) Practical reason
Looking at the server browser it seems that DEMOPHOBIA is the place to be if you want to play ictf. I was there a few times but it isn’t the same. You know: it irritates me to see the same players playing over there that got a ban on our servers for one or another reason. But don’t get me wrong: I am not saying that the DEMOPHOBIA admins do it wrong… maybe they just think different about things? No idea :D
My point is: for me it feels better to play on a server where some imho experienced and trusted players try to keep the servers clean from cheaters the same way I would do. Afair we really seldom discuss a ban. Not because we don’t care but because there is no need for a discussion :D

–> tl;dr: because I like to play on servers where those people are banned that I would have banned too :)

Now it’s up to YOU! Tell us on what server(s) you enjoy yourselves the most and why you prefer it/them. Just drop a comment!



  1. Vanquish

    Anything but demophobia.
    A 128 slot server that only ever plays ictf on akroseum, tempest, mill and berlin_wall and also lags like shit? Yes please!

    When I first started Sauer I was perplexed by how public servers run a disproportionately high amount of ictf compared to ectf, and it’s still something that baffles me.

    1. Nar

      It’s been reduced to 30s, and those maps are player-voted ^^ not part of rotation i n mapvote

      1. Vanquish

        Tbh it’s kinda in between what both of us are saying. They’re never “player voted” in the sense that maps are player voted on other servers, but neither are they technically forced onto the maprot in a traditional sense – it comes up at intermission with a choice between two terrible maps and then tells players to type either 1 or 2 to choose between the corresponding maps. The best map I’ve ever seen be one of the two aforementioned candidates is redemption, which is a massive gay clusterfuck on a public server anyway. It is honestly like 95% of the players don’t know the /map mapname command, and the 5% that do are just spamming it every 3 seconds as intermission approaches.

        Anyway yeah it was never my intention to single demophobia out as a bad server. As Acuerta said below, it’s stupid to hate on something that’s for free and I don’t believe I was ever explicitly directing hate around, merely trying to back up my points since some others below have been accused of not doing so.

  2. unnamed

    Enjoy the death of PSL; everybody who is not an oldfag or an asslicking player is banned there, why ppl want to play there? You insult players as “niggers”, “bastards” and “dammit noobs”. Sorry, but PSL stands for a noob-hating authority abuse server, which gives access only to well known “trusted” cheaters. Seriously. On Demophobia it will happen that one admin “accidently” kicks a cheating auther for cheating; not on PSL. You say PSL is cheat/troll free? Imma laughting my ass off. Demophobia has problems with Birk, who is banned pretty fast, but PSL has problems with cheating authers, nobody wants to ban. Also PSL is the reason why the community is this small: People download the game, join PSL, get constantly killed by cheating admins noboy has the balls to kick ’em. Then they get bored, kill teammates and get pbanned because they answer to “kill reds du dreckiger jude” with “wtf, hals maul du huso”.
    Furthermore, I understand people who download hack**** and cheat at your servers. They just want to get some frags too against all these authers who OFC play with vanilla clients, but know everything about programming when you talk to them at irc.

    Conclusio: PSL is a lie and deserves it’s death. Even if Demophbia is owned by noob admins, it’s still the better solution than the cheating and new player hating machine PSL that kills the whole game by it’s closed society acting plus this unbelievable paranoia against untrusted new players.

    There exists people at the community that love their own server and therefore say bindly “dont join this clans, or this clans servers, they are shit”. … and then there is me, who hopes that everyone who is reading this, starts requesting the authority of PSL leading, asks himself why all ogros related code, WC, Server, etc is closed source, and in case someone with auth gets another time more than 100 frags in a game, go to spec and to watch if the shots really hit the enemy or just end next to the enemy. And I hope also you dont say anything to avoid to get insulted and pbanned; just do it like I did and leave this shit server, even if you’re trusted, the community of ogros will ignore you – thats my experience.

    1. Acuerta

      Your cause is so noble that you desperately have to upvote your own post 20 times? :D


    2. hades

      See this blog isn’t for people who support a terrible server like demophobia. These 13 likes must be from demonubs or you, who voted for your own post. Anyways notice how you hardly see anyone there who is actually good, every good player i know would rather play a different game than waste time getting 100+ frags and 60+ acc, it’s obviously no challenge. Like i’ve said to many of your admins.. to their face.. demophobia is awful and should be banned.

      Why you unnamed anyways? Don’t hide now, pls sir. Also which auth user cheats? I wanna know tbh

      Conclusion: Demophobia is a joke sorry bro


      1. Sauerbraten Player

        dude, that is your opinion… Everything will not always go your way. Just because we have 32 slots doesn’t mean that we force people to fill them up… People come to our server because they enjoy the crowd, and talking to their friends… It sounds like your just jealous because people actually want to come to our server. — “See this blog isn’t for people who support a terrible server like demophobia” — your opinion… Not everyone thinks so. If they did, we wouldn’t have a full server, now would we? — “Like i’ve said to many of your admins.. to their face.. demophobia is awful and should be banned.” — We also don’t care that you want us banned… we are doing nothing illegal… if you think we are messed up, look at the venice server… 128 slots… they don’t get many people because there is not enough people who want to connect there. “These 13 likes must be from demonubs or you, who voted for your own post.” — No crowd> likes or dislikes anything from this website… This is the first time I’ve connected since 2 months. I didn’t even know this place existed 3 months ago… Just curious, but why do you think demophobia is a terrible server? because it is successful??? — “Anyways notice how you hardly see anyone there who is actually good, every good player i know would rather play a different game than waste time getting 100+ frags and 60+ acc, it’s obviously no challenge.” — The server is not their just to challenge teams… that is for organized mixes or for other great players… Demophobia is just a place for a bunch of players (no matter the skill level) to hang out, chat, and have fun… The points you use to describe you hatred of demo are irrelevant. Lastly, if you hate it so much, why do you, YOURSELF, play there?!?! #help!!!!

      2. Acuerta

        You’re offering a free service, that’s rarely a bad thing.
        I think I’ll have to agree with you on this – the server is always crowded so it obviously does a good job attracting players.

        Does it offer fierce competition, strict rule enforcement and a cheater-free environment? Probably not, but if the public players cared so much about these aspects they would play on PSL1.

        What I’m saying is: ‘Suum Cuique’. Also, hating on people who just offer something for free is really sad.

      3. Sauerbraten Player

        Irrelevant. All you need to know is that i play sauerbraten. if i felt you needed to know my name, i would have put it. And I have seen you play on Demophobia as w00p hades and !s hades. All i know is that you are hades. You have no valid reason to why Demophobia should be banned, other than you not liking it. Your opinion means zip to the Sauerbraten Master Server list. We are not breaking any rules, we are just more popular than psl. Get over it, and stop complaining about how it is “terrible” because it doesn’t follow your preferences as a “good server”. Think of it this way: If McDonald’s was Demophobia, and arby’s was psl, just because McDonald’s has more seats and gets more customers doesn’t mean they should be shut down. It just means they are more attractive and preferred than arby’s. <— not a perfect comparison, but i think it serves it's point. You can voice your opinion all you want, but you obviously are not thinking things through.

      4. swatllama

        Galaxy, or whomever you may be, you’re a fucking idiot. We outlined why your server is shit on your forums, and Fatality explained it very well and eloquently here.

      5. Sauerbraten Player

        lol, im not galaxy, and I’m not even a crowd member. “We outlined why your server is shit on your forums, and Fatality explained it very well and eloquently here.” — My server? (I am not a crowd.) It is a free and welcoming community server. Your opinions. That is 2 people, how many people play Sauerbraten?? I understand many people will like and dislike parts and want them removed, but #1: No rules are broken, and #2: Not the majority Opinion. “also you’d have the bawk bawk bawk chicken dinner mr. anonymous i’m curious to know why the pro-demophobia players wish to hide their identity” #1: I use so many names, you wouldn’t even recognize anyone of them. #2. I never said i was pro-demophobia. I’m just not against demophobioa. I am not against psl either. Sure, i believe demophobia is successful (reaches a full server {32 players} many times throughout the day), but I don’t hate psl. I just know that no server is perfect. PSL has good features for it’s targeted audience, and Demophobia has good features for their targeted audience. The only difference is that the veteran player/better players are more involved with psl, so they will tend to like anything ogros better than demophobia. I understand the reasons why you don’t like demophobia, and i respect them. I just don’t appreciate you trying to get demophobia banned from the server list because of what you guys think of it, which will take away a great server (PSL is also a great server) from many young and new players.

      6. Fear

        but #1: No rules are broken,

        BULLSHIT. Demophobia had globalauth disabled for weeks, thats why eihrul took it from the masterlist (finally). A server which had globalauth disabled, doesnt deserve to stay on the masterlist, because it can happen again anytime. And without the authusers the server will go even more down (hardly possible but yeah).

      7. Nar

        It wasn’t disabled intentionally, it was a script bug :) get informed plz

      8. swatllama

        Technically, it’s not illegal to kill you in some areas. I will kill you in one of those areas.

  3. swatllama

    I loved oo2 when my good buds played. Now they don’t. Come back mamba and smurf <3. We just have idiots teamwounding there!

    Buck, that's just one of the things that makes PSL 1 great. DEMOPHOBIA, the server run by your clan, is killing those great features.

    Idk who unnamed is. It can't be Jumper, who is an idiot. It doesn't seem to be a crowd… let's just let it be some idiot who was banned by Rosine cause Rosine is smart and the unnamed is stupid. :D

    1. Jumper

      Demophobia? PSL? None of them. I can’t see any good public server except osh-clan.de servers. A good admins, nice maps, no lags – perfect. My opinion is: community and the whole sauerbraten is kinda dead since collect edition was realesed. But, sauerworld is a great community, and doing a great job! Many nice ideas, movies, client mods, unique stuff…. guys you just need a server and you would be one of the greatest communities ever existed. :) Keep going!

    2. Fear

      For me the Psl servers are the best. There are Psl 2-4, which are perfect for duels and mixed games or even for cws. On the other hand there is Psl 1, where you can enjoy playing public instactf without getting disturbed by cheaters.

      Demophobia is just bad ( too many slots, too many cheaters, too many admins who dont care for the cheaters and THE SERVER IS LAGGY)

  4. bandandit

    It seems like the age old question, doesn’t it? As long as there are individually hosted servers this debate will never change, regardless of which servers they are. Personally I don’t really see a problem with having both PSL and Demophobia. In fact I see it as a good thing. Demophobia is really just a slightly upgraded Nooblounge in my eyes. It draws a really large beginners crowd which is great. I’d much rather have noobs playing and learning amongst themselves rather than having to always deal with them when you’re really trying to have a good competitive game. And it’s better for them so they don’t get frustrated getting fragged over and over by the more experienced players.

    With that said, of course, I’d much rather play on and PSL / Ogros server then at Demophobia. And it’s not because I’m a trusted admin. In fact the only reason why I ever wanted to become one in the first place was because I really liked what (TC at the time) was trying to accomplish. Only someone who spent time in one of their irc channels would understand how much sweat, blood and tears went into making this game something special. Between hosting and modding the servers, writing scripts, writing blogs, hosting tournaments and the countless hours of watching the servers (and let me remind you there are roughly 8 of them), everything they’ve done was to try and make the most fair and enjoyable game for people to play. Sure there were some blunders and bad seeds and there was certainly some shit that might have happened that shouldn’t have, but we all kept at it and took real pride in what we were doing.

    The fact of the matter is that there should be a place for both these servers and more. I’ll continue to play on Demophobia from time to time assuming there is no one on PSL. But I’ll also occasionally sit in empty PSL servers (especially one’s that are running other game modes) from time to time waiting for more people and I invite anyone who wants to start up a game to come join me. I think it’s time for less bitching and more making shit happen.

  5. star

    Thing you are all missing is this: PSL was always a server where the highskilled player could have some real bitch ass competition, thus fun. Nowadays those players are gone, or don’t play public anymore, because there is no server you can have a highskilled opponent running around. If you are good on demophobia, you’ll get called cheater, faggot, or other names, which pisses every skilled one looking for a hangout off.
    If ANYONE here wants to argue that demophobia is well managed, they should really review their definition of the word. I once spent 2 weeks running around to get in contact with anyone able to fix your servermod ( MYBYT attacks ). Nobody was found and my angry reaction on the crowd forum was just thrown into the garbage. I understand that you might been offendend, but you could have seen the point anyway and contacted me…
    I ran a venice server for years and it was nice to have the cheaters all go into one place, so they won’t bother on other servers. There have been always little community servers, like scc or nooblounge who were popular because ‘friends could hang out’. The thing that gets most of the old, higher skilled players off on ranting against the slotlevel of demophobia is, that there is now just one server online which is a combination out of nooblounge and venice.
    Nobody likes to play under those circumstances.

    1. vzzec

      I agree bro. Its just impossible to have a challenging public game anymore since Demophobia is usually the only server with some people online (well maybe there is some venice server). The usual statement of the crowds that no one forces me to play there is just bullshit in this context as the choice is either to play on Demophobia or on venice. Also the Masters and Admins seem to be smart as bricks as they dont ban known cheaters like Jumper or obvious trolls and flamekiddies. I really thought about starting a mass kick with auth there because the server was messed up with idiots that would be banned on every well managed server. In conclusion its just a hiding spot for the scum of sauer although the initial intention of the crowds was probably to create something better. And about the hate that you get from the community and especially the elder players: 1. Your server is monopolizing the game and leads to the death of several other servers and communities such as psl or nooblounge| 2. You guys are completely resistant to any kind of criticism and keep on excusing although there is nothin left to gain| 3. Demophobia is not attractive to the elder staff as its overcrowded with retards (due to the fact that the the Admins tolerate almost everything) and has horrible lackspikes.
      I lock forward to all your little complains as i will crush them to pieces and rape your shallow minds.

  6. pix

    I rarely play public, most of the time I’m on noVI underground, PSL2-4 or vaQ Drugstore, but when I do, I’m usually on PSL because I fucking hate being crammed on a map with 30 others. PSL already is upper limit with ~21 slots. Also, PSL has better administration.

      1. Vanquish

        Dude I swear it’s just the same, at least on my S4.
        I guess I’m just missing a bunch of whining anyway, nothing useful/constructive (yes that includes this post)

  7. Terminator

    It’s for sure that venice servers are the best, of course, users who play there are really skilled.
    Obviously, this comment has no sarcasm.


    No idea how one ictf public can be better then another. Btw PSL admins and trusties can just ban people out of rage, even without spectating and for no reason. Also global auth is shit, server owners are investing resources in time and money, and i think they should have full control over servers. Global auth maybe good only as an optional feature.

    P.S. And claims that public ictf with 20 player is better and more pro than 40 player ictf is just so LOOOOL

    P.P.S. ictf is bad in general, but some ppl just should realize that sauer in general is made for noobs, and it is fun that way for 95% of sauer player base that are even not aware of so called “community”. Maybe it is a bit sad that sauer is not evolving in a more competitive/challenging game, but i think it is people that are claiming to be The community and enjoying some kind of power with privileges are to blame.

    1. vzzec

      Seriously dude, all you do since you joined this game is blaming the community for almost everything. Its ok if you want to complain but dont try to ruin what many players have build over years with passion. I know that there are some guys who simply hate everything just for the sake of. If you dislike this game and its community so much, feel free to leave, i doubt that anyone would miss you. Or write a fork of the game and do it better. I have simply enough of your daily crying. Im glad to see that the competitive scene is slowly starting to regenerate and im happy about every active clan i see ingame. I may have some differences with !s or rC but im sure that we will get over this sooner or later. I also believe that its time to say thank you! I want to thank ogros and all the trustets for their work, i want to thank my mates from DK for getting the DKSC running and hope that we will all have much fun thogether during the next events, big thanks also to everyone involved with sauerworld – You do a great job guys :), and finally i want to thank all the clans for not giving up this game. The only advice i can give to crowd is to take our complaints serious. Do you really believe that we say all this just to tease you?

      1. ФЭНТАZИ

        Maybe crowd are running theirs servers with passion too, and players like it. I have no problems with that people want to make things in their own way, but many here apparently do. And i’m not complaining about anything, just stating the fact that PSL administration and gauth system is far from perfect, to say the least.

        >Seriously dude, all you do since you joined this game is blaming the community for almost everything.

        And is it a bad thing, why else should take the responsibility? For me community is not a bunch of people with privileges, but a group of people also with responsibility and goals they are striving to achieve. And not something like shutdown crowd servers, because they are targeting mostly noobs and don’t follow your advises.

        >Im glad to see that the competitive scene

        I never said that it is bad to have tournaments. Just in my opinion, it is not really that “competitive” and sauer can’t attract NEW good/competitive players.

      2. vzzec

        I never talked about shutting down crowd servers. All we want is them to care about the complaints and lower the player limit. Why dont they run 2 servers with 16 or 20 slots instead of one with 32. Actually no one of them is even tryin to make a little step in our direction..all they do is hiding in their shells and pretend that everything is fine. But that wont solve anything. Its more like they are asking for a war. I for my part dont mind to bring it to them. Its not that we are responsible for the war..We just criticized them and although the tone of our complaints wasnt always as friendly as it should be, we also suggested stuff that could be changed to make Demophobia more enjoyable for ALL people. If you guys are really unable to deal with it, i wont refuse to enter this little dispute. And by enter i mean supporting Birk financially and start attacking the serv by myself. We really tried everything to get a peaceful solution and i dont see another option anymore. And if i have to locally blow the server up, ill do it. PSL belongs to this game like the statue of liberty belongs to ny.. i wont let you crush it.

      3. a-monster

        “We really tried everything to get a peaceful solution and i dont see another option anymore.”

        VZZEC, or sweeper:

        Are you crazy man? You are talking about “war”? Have you ever talked with me? Your opinion is the one and only? Sounds like you are an 14 year old kid.

        However, wanne talk with me? No problem. PM in our forum and i will answer. But please, change the way you talk.

      4. vzzec

        “Are you crazy man? You are talking about “war”? Have you ever talked with me? Your opinion is the one and only? Sounds like you are an 14 year old kid.”

        Well 1. Im not the only one with this opinion, the other just lack the backbone to say it loud, although i think that fatality and swat talked to you weeks ago-any chances since then? NO
        2. Actually its a shame that you dont seem to know me altough im around than you are and really ask if im a 14 year old…Mumble with me and you ll notice that im no Kid. However i hope that you got at least half of my bass as i dont like high pitched voices.
        3. Talking to you will be pretty much useless as others did that already and nothing has changed. I have enough experience to say that its impossible to have a succesful talk with guys who are as ideologically blinded as you are.

      5. a-monster

        It was worth a try. The message you did not understand. Forget it.

  9. swatllama

    Some may think that the features for upvoting and downvoting were added so that people could give constructive and anonymous feedback as to their standing on someone’s post.

    Ohhh those naive fuckdumbs…

    Nono, Star and Acuerta, while writing this feature, had one thing in mind:

    They wanted them to get together and masturbate while clicking the red button, all in unison, chanting and wanking as one vibrant, throbbing Crowd>.

    gg star. :D

  10. unnamed

    Well yes, the so called “community” is shit. But for saying so, you show me the door? I love this game and I will fight for that it makes fun for ALL players to play, not a closed society called “community”. Why closed society? Because you give new players no chance. I see unknown players begging to get out of spectator mode, and when they ask too often because nobody feels a need to reply, they get muted/kicked.. allowd to join are only the elder players. So there is only Demophobia and PSL left for them, a server with not many players and not very crowded, why? Because all players are banned there, many for cheating, but many without even ever played Sauerbraten – this is the result of your stupid range-pban system. Furthermore, there is this thing with cheating. There are many trusteds that have very interesting stats, that differ from server to server. You see Fear playing on PSL or Drugstore with sane results and on Demophobia with over 100 frags, even worse with joran, even more worse with starch/potato and the list is long, and I wouldn’t say that without demos in case … You ask why I dont say my name? Because I know how this society works: Once you open your mouth and get the shit of your chest that bugs you bout the community, this was you last day of beeing “trusted”… there is no chance to talk with most of you guys – you just follow the opinions of the alpha animals and repeat, repeat, repeat while licking out their rectum caves. And yes, you are fucking noob hating. I’ve seen it unlimited times at #ogros irc how you make fun with noobs using /while 1 to get unbanned and insulting the players/mothers of players hard, who joined for asking why they got kicked (mostly teamkill autokick). You try to be so mature here, but in game and at irc, you are just retarded bullys, so proud of playing sauer since years, and nothing learned about how to keep the game alive by what it really needs: constantly playing and new players. Again: I’m part of this society and as gauth holder, I got the same rules from eihrul like you all that say: Dont be a fucking jerk and act like someone, people can respect. This doesnt mean that you are free to claim auth when you cheat to calm the noobs, that doesnt meant that you should troll and insult the “noobs”, because this just makes YOU noob.
    So, the bad feeling I have here, related to PSL and it’s administrators, may have other players too and search another server: Demophobia. The Clan is not skilled at playing, not skilled at server modding (see gauth bug) and they are not very skilled in administrating too, but my experience there is: They mostly let the people play and have fun without insulting them, even players who are banned on PSL – what is actually a good thing, because, … you may have forgotten it in all your saueryears: its just a game, a game 12-30 years old players play, some enjoy modding the source and cheat some games, and because they are kids, they reget soon and want to be part of the community. So why kick these guys? I understand Crowds here, as they only kick when people really cheat – if they do it more than once or twice, they get their ban too and kick on sight. This is sane administration on a server, open for noobs, old players, and everyone, this is why people play there, while PSL is dying . The old players can still play at their locked servers and cheat each others till they get bored .. for what we need PSL? R.I.P.

    As bonus, I want to add one more thought about cheating, related to acuertas wonderful picture: GUYS! This game is open source and people are cheating. All of us! It starts with glowing playermodels, available to download at ogros (the cheat free guys, remember?) and removed mapmodels and ends with laghacks and enlarged hitboxes. We all have our scripts and helpers … trying to be so close to the line that the community draws to “this is above the line to cheating”, but everything of that give you advantage against noobs, so dont call you “skilled players” when you are not able to hit anything without texreduce, a glowing snout and your other little helpers… If you ban a dumb noob who changed the source some lines to have a triggerbot, he isnt the pure evil – what is the difference between him and you? Dont say that in all your sauerbraten years, you never had the idea to try out a cheat and if so, youre not better than him, you are even worse as you are holding auth and represent Sauerbraten while calling a random player “faggot”. In the end, there will always be people who will modify the source and cheat, thats why there is the option to /kick a player to show him that this is wrong and to let him reget, the default 4 hours are enough. There is not need for permanent banning, except its a real hacking asshole with vpns and all this shit. Also, as long as you act like a respectful authority, you wount make the people angry and they dont see any sense in DoSing you or visiting you using hackbraten or other malware. In my opinion, you just create people like birk by beeing jerks to people who know about C.

    Conclusio: Dont cry about that PSL is empty and Demophobia is full, the solution is easy: Nobody likes PSL except the so called “community” that has to follow the opinions of the rest of the “community”. You show me the door? I show you the door. Sauerbraten is a game for everyone, not only for a closed society and you see what you get by beeing like this: Your server is empty, people attack you, code cheat clients and DoS your leagues.

    1. Fatality

      You just sound like a moron, honestly dude. All you do is cry. Go join crowd with this bullshit you’re spewing out your mouth. I asked this before and got no answer: why the fuck are you here if you hate the community so much and nobody likes you? Go play bot matches, or better yet leave and play quake if you just care about the gameplay. Your whining falls on deaf ears, I really hope you know that

      1. greenadiss

        He has no idea about the game called Quake (QL) otherwise he (maybe she) would know that you can set bright models right in game and no one calls it cheat.

      2. Fatality

        Well I thought you were internalsausage, if you are then the above still applies.

      3. internalsausage

        nobody of 7% sauer players base? i can neglect them. :)

        pls cry more about bad ppl are playing sauerbraten :)

    2. hades

      Btw damn, i knew fear was the authcheater, jk :D. But no. See that’s exactly what i mean when i say that demophobia is just a bunch of noobs. Can’t even play w/o accusing someone for cheating, i feel bad for you fear, and starch, what a shame. One day you demonubs will learn how to frag and actually compete with vaQs, w00ps and !s… wait, who am i kidding xD you probably won’t, ofc due to the fact you’d rather accuse people than learn to play

    3. starch

      First of all, anybody can get 100+ kills and 65%+ accuracy on demophobia with their eyes close and both hands tied behind their backs. Its not cheating, its called ‘i can shoot anywhere and hit somebody because there is 40 people on the server running in a straight line filling up my entire screen.’

      Straight up, The ONLY issue I have with demophobia is the fact that it allows 36 people, that is insane, and its absolutely no fun. This game is lucky to see 36 people sometimes, and it is awful to see them all on 1 server. I hardly play on demo because me and my supposed ‘cheats’ get bored of shooting 70% acc every game. Reduce the damn server limit to 21 and I’m sure almost everybody will be happy, they dont care about the ‘nooby admins’ or stuff like that. The biggest issue is the fact that its so overcrowded that makes it no fun to play on.

      And to everybody else defending demophobia:
      – If there wasn’t a big problem with demophobia, then we wouldnt be having such an argument over it. It is clear that a great portion of the community is bothered by demophobia and it’s flaws, its not joke.

    4. ФЭНТАZИ

      >glowing playermodels

      If you meant just very bright models, it is hardly a cheat(but i think that this should be in the default sauer distribution, but the game development is stalled anyway) as the default 10kx skins are bright too, so definitely hiding in darkness is not a part pf sauers gameplay. textreduce is 100% not a cheat, i prefer even to watch QL streams that have picmip :). And the best thing default sauer script can give you is per-weapon config, and ffa hand timers (in may opinion the last is a cheat, despite can be done without any game modification). And both are not related to insta.

      So it is very incorrect to compare bright models with trigger bots.

    5. greenadiss

      I like when people overact some things they see. They see someone did a thing one time and they make something regular of this.

      Talking about PSL: people usually get a second chance if they admit they cheated and regret about it. These people deserve a second chance. But not all. If a person can’t admit cheating in the past about what we can talk then.

    6. Agalloch

      PSL is empty because ppl play on Demo. Not because ppl hate PSL.

      If i go to PSL with another 5 players, we get PSL on TOP again. Its about this. Ppl join where are ppl and if on demo are ppl earlier and more of them playing there so they stay there. As soon as PSL have more players playing, ppl are leaving Demo to join PSL.

  11. pisto

    I think it’s not good that pro players play only duels with locked servers. Just play open, limit the number of slots at most, on something other than ictf. That’s how you get people to play other things I think.

  12. star

    Stupid shit bitches asking in spec to get unspecced … yeah right, whole story there…

    They SPAM when you choose to keep playing instead of talking to them.
    They flood your server until DoS if nobody answers them.

    I ask you again, WHO IS TO BLAME?


    Unnamed you should really get your act right and stop talking bullshit and hiding behind an anonymous identity.

    1. bandandit

      I agree with you pisto. Locked mixed games seem to have flourished since certain players stopped wanting to go to Demophobia, and they are a lot of fun but they don’t help solve the exclusivity issue of “community” players. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to play an exclusive game but instead of everyone quitting after a match, open it up and allow others to populate. If you want to see other servers active don’t let the only option be Demophobia or bust.

      But the biggest problem with multiple active servers lies within the unfortunate fact that there are not enough sauerbraten players and reducing the number of slots on Demophobia would certainly help get people to spread out which would certainly benefit the state of the game. The whole point of this “community” that everyone is referencing isn’t to exclude yourself or other people from aspects of the game. If you want to become a part of the community then BE a part of the community. If you’re posting here you’re a part of it whether you like it or not. But instead of shit talking everything, do something constructive, offer suggestions and help make the game be better not only for yourself but for other people.

      One last thing. Unnamed, whoever you might be, I think there are some valid points that you brought up in your last post. I don’t agree with most of it but I also don’t think that it should completely fall on deaf ears. Obviously you care enough to spend that much time typing a comment and I’d be happy to talk privately with you about turning your rage into something a little more constructive.

  13. unnamed

    “We just criticized” no you don’t, you join our servers and mapvote to secondevermap, you accuse our players and masters for cheating, kick our players and you abuse your gauth on our servers to bypass our restrictions, yesterday sweeper and swatllama cheated on our servers till our players left, because there was currently no admin around to kick your asses. no you don’t just criticize, and we don’t negotiate with terrorists. stay away from our servers or get kicked.

    1. star

      still accusing everyone to be a cheater, coarse? As far as I remember, you told me you changed!

      just for the record: if there were actual cheaters with names of the popular kids, then they are definitely a fake

      1. cs4

        star i can clarify — the above wasnt me at all did u read the post from gear before making me look bad all over again?

      2. Acuerta

        I saw your post on the crowd forum and changed this faker’s name to “unnamed”. Yes, it’s the guy that previously commented as “unnamed”, too. Sorry for your trouble!

      3. sand

        its quite interesting that Star is attacking that guy even after seeing his post at crowd forums
        therefore pretty obivous who is the faker for me
        spinning a nice yarn inside the community, Star? :)

        looks for me like just another attack against crowd

        well and fake or not … the cheating attack of sweeper is legit …
        ask swatllama .he can tell you more…

        imho psl and demophobia are simply 2 different servers
        both lag sometimes sometimes not, therefore no need to say one is more shit than the other one
        both have good admins and bad admins, therefore no need to say one is more shit than the other one
        also ive seen cheating ppl on psl and also on demophobia, therefore no need to say one is more shit than the other one
        no valid points here
        but if i need to choose, i would choose demophobia and only because reading all this hate spreading here… these guys did nothing bad but open server slots that are default and it is allowed to do so … dont attack them for doing this and pls try to be a bit more mature

        i hope eihrul doesnt read all these comments … its … pathetic how the community changed

      4. ФЭНТАZИ

        >i hope eihrul doesnt read all these comments … its … pathetic how the community changed

        The most funny thing, that many people from this “community” are complaining that sauerbraten is not in an active development, and in the same time they rage when someone has just raised player limit on a popular public server. Some of the most passionate haters are actually a part of this blog admin crew, too. I’ve been wondering how such ppl even get into an opensource game, really the last thing to expect.

      5. Acuerta

        More players on demophobia = Healthier community? Nice equation.

        I think you’re (deliberately) missing many people’s points of how Demophobia ruins other servers/communities with its ridiculous player limit just so you can act like a retarded version of a rebel.

        For what it’s worth, I don’t necessarily share their opinion and I also made sure the blog post stays neutral.

      6. ФЭНТАZИ

        It is just ok for me, if it ruins smth, by providing better -> more popular services. Players were not forced to play there, and here ppl want to force players. Nothing more to add…

      7. star

        haven’t seen anything on the crowd page, sorry

        but if you want me to, i’ll admit it was me! WHAT A TWIST !

        sorry cs4, i should have checked the origin of the message before.

  14. Fatality

    Hey! Since there is 81 fucking comments and not 1 solution, let’s just do a quick summary and everyone stfu! Conclusion: some elder players who have seen the best of this game feel that there is a server which impares the diversity of this game. Conclusion: the administrators of this server and a few select players think these elder players are nothing but bullies and auth abusers and not players who actually want to see the game thrive. Conclusion: The administrators of this server feel only attacked and refuse to do anything that they feel will affect their server.

    The fucking end. Crowd, eternal soulcaliber, and whoever else, go fap together on your server, have a wonderful day and please stop posting the saaaaaaame shit oooover and ooover, we already know how you fuckers feel, you have one opinion which you keep repeating and quite frankly sound like a bunch of morons. May you forever rot with the fall of sauer

    1. vzzec

      Calm down bro, ive talked with a-monster and maybe its possible to find a solution thogether.
      We wont gain anything if we keep raging, although the the current situation is quite frustraiting.
      See man the problem is that im about to make peace and find a compromise…it wont get easier if we keep behaving like this. So please clam down guys and give us some days ok? Thx in advance.

  15. crowd>zrt

    Back to topic (What’s your favorite server).

    My favorite server is demophobia. :-)

    Stop crying because the other servers are empty.

    We limited slots to 30 at the request of Fohlen.
    Thus you cannot say that we monopolize the players and that we don’t take into account the opinion of the “community”.

    If Demophobia doesn’t please you, go to play somewhere else!

    @admins of other servers. If you want players on your own server, work. Jealous guys.

    @Vzzec. You can say “calm down”, I will never forget your previous sentence: “And by enter i mean supporting Birk financially and start attacking the serv by myself. We really tried everything to get a peaceful solution and i dont see another option anymore. And if i have to locally blow the server up, ill do it”. Sure you are welcome on Demophobia, like all other friends of Birk!

    1. vzzec

      Hmm you do really everything to provoke us huh? I mean what else could be the intention of your post? Everything is said already. Also im no friend of Birk, but you should really start to think about why people attack your server. Its just funny how you really prove every single prejudice about your clan with your posts (here and in the crowd forum).
      But listen bro, ignoring reality wont reduce the hate you guys get… It should be also your concern to negotiate. I actually belive that you have absolutely NO wish to find a peaceful compromise for the current situation. In this case im glad that a-monster had the courage to listen to all of arguments carefully-thx man.

  16. zrt

    What’s wrong with you Vzzec? Psychological problem or adolescent crisis?

    You say I provoke you but it’s you who threatens to explode DP.
    I have the impression that the simple fact of not agreeing with you is an unbearable problem for your ego. Grow up.

    You want to negotiate, but you seem to ignore that in a negotiation both parts make concessions!
    What are your concessions? What do you brings us? Why should we negotiate with someone who suggests helping financially Birk?

    And by virtue of what you want to negotiate? You are appointed by whom?
    You represent who?

    To please you I am really going to provoke you:
    1. We are going to increase the number of slots to 96 on Demophobia
    2. We are going to set up a new server: VenicePhobia (96 slots).
    3. You are banished from our servers.

    That they are real provocations Vzzec.

    Seriously, I propose you a negotiation:
    you stop your lunacy and you can play on our server.

    1. hades

      oh pls, stop with your useless shit zrt. no need in keep arguing about smth like this. vzzec obv tried to compromise but once again, you guys overlook problems with your server. it’s ok vzzec, i support what you’re saying/doing.

    2. Vanquish

      The fact that you’ve outlined and are conducting a three-point plan to personally irritate vzzec because he stated his opinion on an open comment thread says more about your insecurities than we ever could.

    3. swatllama

      Zrt, if you cannot understand the points which have been brought up, you are too stupid to function in society. Please kill yourself and stop depleting my limited oil supply.

      1. unnamed

        this is why i think you noobs are not mature enough to hold an authkey. you are the cancer of the game. you attack people out of nowhere just because your shitty psl server is uncrowded. after reading here about dos, I’m done with you guys. here is my white flag. i can understand crowds here: to negotiate fails here. i was thinking about to talk eihrul and show him how you cheat, abuse, talk about supporting birk and dos attacks, but frosty was maybe right when he said eihrul is punishing sauerbraten by simply letting it die … anyway, i will try to talk with him, lets see what he is thinking. the whole thing with demophobia just crossed a line that shouldnt be crossed.

        it is really sad that so much people close their eyes about these happenings, its sad to see you attacking crowds so hard that they OFC need to defend themselfs against your bullshit, its sad. keep on the dos coming, merry christmas and thanks for destroying the game by killing a servers simply because youre fucking envy about that psl is empty. what the actual fuck is wrong with you guys …

      2. unnamed

        how about trying to help finding a solution instead of posting funny pictures like a 12 year old?

      3. hades

        Oh cry more.
        I see this guy still hiding behind unnamed, little bitch.

      4. star

        ‘the whole thing with demophobia just crossed a line that shouldnt be crossed.’

        from what I remember, the line was crossed long ago before demophobia was popular, seein those ‘dos friends’ of yours cheating on vaQ’4 to empty it to push their own servers…

        The smell of BS on your words makes me vomit.

  17. Nighty

    It’s funny how everyone is crying about how bad demophobia and psl servers, but no one is taking steps to better either one. All this arguing and bitching is all irrelevant. Crowds, instead of making the situation even worse by commenting on the negative post about your server, take that negativity and making your server better. @ Zrt, thats really immature to do such a thing to provoke Vzzec and to my understanding he is trying to help the situation out of anyone posting here. To get this out the way, i personally dont have a problem with Demophobia, but looking at how things are headed, thats changing my opinion. I enjoy the playing on any open server, mix games, or any games at that matter. I also agree that the enormous slots is outrageous. Having big games are fun but 128 slots is ridiculous. Hopefully all this negativity will make this community better as a whole, not the downfall.

    1. unnamed

      seems you dont get what is happening here, nighty. crowds lowered their slots already to 30 a while ago, they did the first step after the first request in their forums. ppl just ignore that fact here, and no, 90% of the people here, including Vzzec don’t want to help out. just read what the people actually posted here before you start defending and you will understand why those people wount be welcome at demophobia. imo crowds dont need to do anything, but psl needs, at least finding a way to get the server full again, without simply dossing the others.

      1. Acuerta

        I’m assuming the ddos shit wasn’t meant seriously. At least it shouldn’t be taken seriously

      2. hades

        Acuerta don’t confuse this poor guy, he just doesn’t understand yet

      3. swatllama

        Seems you don’t get what is happening here. The Great swatllama will explain.

        We pointed out what is wrong with your server. You brushed us off. Now these comments are just repeats of each other. I only keep posting here to continuously insult you and provide eloquent entertainment for all to read.

      4. Agalloch

        What if my comment about ddos is about something else and it has deeper reason why i said it?

        What if you ddosed PSL so ppl moved into TrialPhobia?

        Btw i talked about this situation with my mom, and she said, she will listen you too, if you want to talk with her, i can manage a meeting. She has a big boobs. So its not only eihrul to who you should cry.



  18. zrt

    Fatality, Star, Agalloch, and others haters: you don’t like Demophobia so you wanna ddos this server?

    Congrats your are ready to join Birk Clan! Have fun with him an go to Hell (kingdom of Hades).

    For your understanding, Vzze expect we decrease our slots to 16 or 20 on DP.
    We don’t agree with him then he threatens us. End of story.

    Are you alive? Words like ” Please kill yourself “ can be dangerous on a blog.

    An arab proverb: Dogs bark, the caravan passes

    1. Agalloch

      You do not listen what is good for sauer, i dont listen to you.

      Yes, i am that noob and retard, but still have a power. From Gainer and Protein bars. And i will be the first man near Birk!

      Birk to the castle!

    2. star

      pls dude, try refresh your sense for dectecting sarcasm

      I play on demophobia every dat, plus i was trying to help you a couple of times… try to determine who’s on your side before you write angry comments

    3. sparta

      C. “The community” is nothing but a bunch of crybaby assholes these days so for the most part I don’t give a fuck about the “community”

      A) There’s a community, but since you and your crowd members are not even in it, how could you think there is one ? :D
      B) Crybaby assholes hm, I’d suggest you to do a research of what people is doing to improve and keep this community alive, funny and competitive.
      C) You can’t criticize the community either, since what are you, and your mates doing for it ? :-)
      You can’t see that ?

  19. Nighty

    Im pretty clear I understand the situation, I’ve read the past comments, thanks for the constructive responses. @Unnamed, who ever you may be, I don’t see why you dislike psl or want to see the death of it or whatever your reasoning is. It has its props as a server, the biggest problem that you have is the players. Im going to be straight up with you dude, I don’t think anyone actually gives a fuck about what you or any other players think about them. I know I don’t, I didn’t start playing sauerbraten to give a fuck about what people think about me, or please anyone here, I play for my own personal reasons including this community. So many people talk so much trash, “the community is shit” and “the community suck,” well if you or anyones else doesn’t respect the community or its players, __________ <— insert a fuck to give, and ill personally escort you to the damn exit.

  20. mefisto

    Hey gang.

    I’m happy that there’s an open discussion about this happening here. It’s important that perspectives from different people that normally don’t communicate much get shared like this. I just wish the tone was a little more positive.

    Crowd, thanks for lowering the player limit on Demophobia. Let’s see if we can come up with some more constructive ideas for making the server ecosystem in Sauer better.

    Unnamed guy and others, sorry that you have felt unwelcome in some of the community IRC channels. I’d like to invite you to the #sauercom channel. I will do what I can to make it a welcoming place where we can continue to have conversations like this. I think we’re all on the same page about one thing at least: we want Sauerbraten to be good. The challenge is to figure out exactly what that looks like, and how to get there.

    If you’re not comfortable joining #sauercom, please feel free to reach out to me personally. I’m `mefisto` on Gamesurge irc, and always on.

    It’s unfortunate to see these cheating accusations thrown around. There is not an epidemic of cheating amongst old-time players. Hero was not a cheater. Fearer is not a cheater. Consider two possibilities:
    – A large difference in skill can be indistinguishable from cheating… to the person with the lesser skill. Are you sure you know what you’re seeing?
    – Most long-time players have had people fake their names to try to damage their reputation. Are you sure you were seeing the person you thought you were seeing?

    Take care everybody.


    1. a-monster

      Thanks for your post. It is good to read something without words like “go kill yourself”, “noobs” like ddos Demophobia or whatever.

      “I think we’re all on the same page about one thing at least: we want Sauerbraten to be good.” Right MEFISTO. This is the point.

      I had a good chat on IRC with VZZEC. We – Admins – talk about it. I want to have a good balance between our Crowd interests and the interests of as many players as possible. This is difficult even from (at least) two reasons. We -the Admins – have much to do in real life. I have a family. I have a full time job. Takes time.

      The second problem: Many players, many different views, different reasons why you play aso. A “perfect solution” does not exist. But we try as best we can. Just give us time to discuss this internally.

      A request for last: Stop accusations and insults. I respect other opinions. But I would like to be treated with this respect, when I hold a different opinion.

      This is also one reason why I like to play on Demophobia (and played very often when I was not a member of crowd). This feeling of being respected as a player I do not have on all servers. Perhaps one reason why some servers remain empty.

      Cya, a-monster

      (Hope you understand my “best-google-translator-english”)

  21. FriendlyUnnamed

    Why play iCTF in the first place? Go play effic and stop bitching about this awful mode!

    Spread love not hate :-)

  22. hades

    well i disagree because ictf is still the most popular mode and will always be more popular, i think. Just because most of the people reading this blog prefer effic, doesn’t change the facts

  23. pisto

    Let’s just clear one thing up. Birk an Jiin and effixman and whoever of the like don’t do their thing for justice, righteous anger, “freedom of speech” (cit. Birk). They are just pissed that they have no leverage on the real world whatsoever, so they buy ddos services to make people notice them. Please stop talking about them. People don’t get angry at psl people and download hackbraten, they just what to try out cheats (yes they are fun indeed, for a short while). Do not try to elevate anything related to cheating to rights, riots, or anything, you are all playing their trolling game with that.

    There have been bad authoritarian reactions from the “elite” circle in the past, but people even inside that did not agree, and I believe that now this is not longer happening. So really this discord seems kind of artificial.

  24. Crowd>Kaotic

    OK, I just read all this and This is my deduction:

    A. It’s a depricated game that is dying, nobody can prolong the inevitable. Blaming one server for the death of a game that is at it’s natural end is rediculous.

    B. So-called higher ups/older players on PSL constantly bitch about newbs and newb servers they hate. Why the fuck would you want all the DP newbs to flood your precious newb free server when we lower the slot limit?

    C. “The community” is nothing but a bunch of crybaby assholes these days so for the most part I don’t give a fuck about the “community” In reality the “community” is silent as the majority are all noobs, All I hear here is “I’m butthurt and want somebody to care about my feelings”.

    D. Server limit…I’m split here. I like having a lot of targets, when I want to frag. I tend to forget there is a flag and I think that is the problem with ICTF. A lot of people just wanna frag but hate venice so they go to DP. If I want to play a serious game 30 people is fucking stupid. If I’m actually playing CTF I think 8-10 is perfect. No good way to deal with this problem.

    E. IT’S A FUCKING GAME!!!!! Everybody stop being douchebags and grow the fuck up.

    F. Fuck off and good night :)

    1. sparta

      C. “The community” is nothing but a bunch of crybaby assholes these days so for the most part I don’t give a fuck about the “community”

      A) There’s a community, but since you and your crowd members are not even in it, how could you think there is one ? :D
      B) Crybaby assholes hm, I’d suggest you to do a research of what people is doing to improve and keep this community alive, funny and competitive.
      C) You can’t criticize the community either, since what are you, and your mates doing for it ? :-)
      You can’t see that ?

      P.S : This comment was originally meant to be here, not in zrt comment.


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