Opinions and impressions of ComEd

[greenadiss]

After testing ComEd for some days and checking different settings, I found the best ones for myself:
(I configured everything from the default without adding my old settings which could make things worse somehow)

multipoll -1 (with "multipoll 1 + maxfps 0 + vsync 0|1" I had really jumpy fps which were quite often close to less than 100 and ofc, it was accompanied with lag)
maxfps 180 (it stays quite stable on 180 on every map I play/watch and has no lag)
vsync 0
texreduce 0

also I had to disable all effects with shadows, glowing and things like that.

I do like here that I can finally see spectators ping. I missed a lot this feature.
Also all the info about damage, frags and accuracy - same, helps a lot to understand better your weak sides about the usage of weapons and maybe to find a way to make them stronger.

Rifle trail I found the best like this:
riflarecolor 255 102 102
riflaresize 0.2


It would be nice (but not really necessary) to see country flags.

Anyway, I am not the best tester of sauer-mods and had tested not that much of them.

[Acuerta]

It should be noted that her problems with different multipoll and effects settings are really an exception that is somehow caused by uncommon hardware (combinations) most likely.

For everyone else, "multipoll 1" combined with "maxfps (multiple of your monitor's refresh rate)" and "vsync 0" should provide for much better performance and less input lag compared to all the other clients that are based on sdl1.2 (vanilla, wc-client, etc.).

[greenadiss]

Yeah, I forgot to add that like 6 months ago I've experienced some lag by using multipoll 1. Can't remember about -1, sorry. Maybe I've never even tried it. I remember like ages ago there was multipoll 2 (not multipol -1). I don't really understand where the difference is/was. The lag (fps) was huge and unplayable at all. It's all about sdos-test client. Also it was ok with multipoll 0.

Pisto and I were trying to fix it but... it didn't work. He had no time for for this and we wasted too much time already, so we just gave up since I was the only one (or almost) with this issue.

My PC is not that strong and very sensitive.

Its configuration:
Video Adapter: ATI Radeon HD 3870 (512 MB)
CPU: DualCore Intel Core 2 Duo E4400, 2400 MHz
RAM: 4 GB
Windows 7 x64

[Vanquish]

Its configuration:
Video Adapter: ATI Radeon HD 3870 (512 MB)
CPU: DualCore Intel Core 2 Duo E4400, 2400 MHz
RAM: 4 GB
Windows 7 x64

I had the same issue.

GPU: AMD Radeon 7970 (3072MB)
CPU: Intel i5 3570k
RAM: 16GB
Windows 7 x64

If I use /maxfps 600 and multipoll, I get frame stuttering and my mouse movements feel laggy. However on the default client (no multipoll), /maxfps 600 is fine.
The best setting I've found so far is /multipoll 1 and /maxfps 300 (at Acuerta's suggestion) - I get no frame stuttering, I don't know why. The mouse movement feels different but I'm confident that this is simply the more direct input and not any type of lag, whereas I'm sure it lags on /maxfps 600.

I guess it's an AMD problem.

[star]

Yes, the direct input results in a weird 'lag'. But after you got used to it, your gaming performance will increase drasticly.

[greenadiss]

I am not sure you wanna get used to fps lag. Vanq has something with mouse but as for me, I do get (with /moltipoll 1) really small number of fps and they jump from 250 to 70. it's pretty unusual. I know my PC and how many fps I can usually get - less than 100 gives me kinda fps lag. Everything stuttering, frame by frame. I don't know how you do call it, maybe not fps lag but it feels exactly like that.
You can play with this lag but it usually getting worse when enemies are around - the moments when I need my game smooth and playable but I do have the opposite.

I think it's all about my PC which is quite old and its CPU just cannot handle it, probably it wants more CPU resources which are not enough. I don't know and it's not worth to know.

Anyway, I am glad that I do have this alternative with multipoll -1. Also, I admit that I could recognize the problem with lag wrong but I know for sure, it's not something I can get used to, it's unplayable.

[star]

Well, I'm glad it works for you with /multipoll -1.

[ФЭHTAZИ]

>For everyone else, "multipoll 1" combined with "maxfps (multiple of your monitor's refresh rate)" and "vsync 0" should provide for much better performance and less input lag compared to all the other clients that are based on sdl1.2 (vanilla, wc-client, etc.).

It is not true. "Multiple of refresh rate" causes visible stripes on a screen. multipoll 1 is meant  to use with vsync 1. without vsync it gives nothing over multipoll -1. And multipoll -1 can't give any  improvement over maximum fps reachable for users's pc. So maxfps about 250-500-1000 and multipoll 0 are the best options to set.

Also sdos is using mingw to crosscompile, so on windows/mac it can be not the best client to use. It should use platform's native toolchains.

[pix]

>It is not true. "Multiple of refresh rate" causes visible stripes on a screen.

How so? Assuming those "visible stripes" you speak of is tearing, then a multiple of the monitor's refresh rate as maxfps will not result in tearing. Why should it?

[frosty]

there will be tearing regardless of maxfps and monitor refresh rate. vsync is the only option to stop tearing, however this will limit your framerate to your monitor refresh rate... so for me my vsync fps is 60. however ive gotten used to the tearing and it doesnt bother ass my framerate is still smooth

[Vanquish]

Assuming those "visible stripes" you speak of is tearing, then a multiple of the monitor's refresh rate as maxfps will not result in tearing. Why should it?

I don't know, but I agree with eternalsolstice on this. capping @ 600 fps on a 60hz monitor gives me screen tearing, and it's completely unplayable unless i turn off multipoll. However capping @ 300 fps doesn't give me this problem, even with multipoll. At first I thought maybe my framerate is unstable since it fluctuates a bit when capped, however when it's uncapped it sticks at 1000 on most maps and drops to about 800 on maps like reissen. maybe the screen tearing is amplified since there's more frames being drawn per second?

Either way I think the only conclusive thing we can take from this is that there is no "best" setting for this client or for multipoll/framerate/etc and I think it's wrong that some people seem to think this is a case of "one size fits all". Instead of promoting certain settings that work on an individual's client, I believe we should be encouraging players to experiment until they find settings that work for them. I know many players (and I used to be one of them) that completely ditched the idea of multipoll simply because my immediate reaction was that my game/mouse lagged a lot more than usual. Multipoll is certainly a very polarising feature (arguably the biggest game-changer) in this client, and not everybody is going to like it, maybe some people just want to use the client's extra features such as coloured rifle trails/etc without downloading independently produced clients that they don't trust. However, from my personal perspective, my problem(s) were fixed through some experimentation with various different settings and a lot of testing.  Many people are dismissing the client before they've even given it a "real" chance, and I think that when it comes to acquiring greater use of this client, not advocating one certain setting as being the best would be a step in the right direction.

[star]

About finding the right settings for each individual, I need to do this: Told you so.

and the whole part of this client being a community client, is to have a client one can trust and enjoy all the features. (check the comed source on github, especially what has been committed).

Other clients even with closed source, such as the OSH Crash mod or the WC client were still very popular. It's not possible to add all features without touching the sauerbraten source. One development road will be to just enable features, so that they are possible to be used, in menus cubescript or whatever the player want to do with it. We like to not change too much, but just ENABLE the use of features. Everything implemented will be off by default, this way we like to encourage the idividual to customize the game by himself.

[pix]

I tested it yesterday, and you guys are right, even maxfps 60 gives me a rolling screen tear... like on old CTRs, when the lines move over the screen slow but noticeable. So I play with vsync for now, which actually solves this problem, but then you get an ugly stutter when your machine can't produce 60fps, even worse than without vsync and <60fps.

[ФЭHTAZИ]

maybe the screen tearing is amplified since there's more frames being drawn per second?

It is not amplified. When fps are multiple of display frequency, tearing occurs in roughly the same places,  fps are still smooth, but images have several evident stripes. When fps are high like 500 and not multiple of refresh rate, tearing is almost unnoticeable.

capping @ 600 fps on a 60hz monitor gives me screen tearing, and it's completely unplayable unless i turn off multipoll

It is a mingw problem. It tries to mimic linux-specific features, but this is very unstable. This can cause different very weird things.

Instead of promoting certain settings that work on an individual's client, I believe we should be encouraging players to experiment until they find settings that work for them.

Absolute no. Experiments are ok with look and feel settings, but not with some buggy and obscure system stuff in default community client. Nobody here understands what multipoll does. It should be smth like: higher fps -> less lag, no vsync, no any "magic" settings.

As for SDL2, it has only relative mouse, it may be a raw input (unaffected by additional os processing, like adding acceleration or dependence on mouse speed settings), but it is not smth guaranteed. There should be a way to get actually used api/mouse move event rate.

Also SDL2 fullscreen used in client is just a fullscreen window, so it can't change display resolution/refresh rate. It may be a good thing -> better window switching, but it may be also affected by os composing wm, with extra lags/fps drop.

And in short, if client can't offer a good base for all platforms (including performance, input or wm integration), adding some minor tweaks to is worthless.

P.S. Consider this as some feature requests to Star's client.

[star]

Dear ETERNALSAUSAGE,

please don't hijack others' topics. If you have problems with the client, wanna suggest some features or point out design flaws, do it in your own topic. I'm hereby closing this one to avoid more deviation from the 'impressions'.

About what you've said: I noted all your appeals, if you need to get them answerd, I'll do so in another topic.

And to clarify one thing: Just because I declared myself to manage the repository (which i don't even do alone as you checked), doesn't mean it is 'my client'. Read the name again, grab a dictionary and stop the bullshit, nobody wants to hear it.
If you don't want to be censored, don't push it.