Sauerworld Forum

Events => Mapping => Topic started by: KI113R on February 27, 2021, 03:01:33 PM

Title: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on February 27, 2021, 03:01:33 PM
This will be the official discussion and review board for the Deathmatch Mapping Competition announced here:

More details will continue to be added as needed.

Judges: KI113R, Misan, Redon, Swatllama and RaZgRiZ


Soyuz (Solo) -

Gmiz (Solo) -

Mmeaninglesnamee (Solo) -

Pepsi/Doko (Duo) -

Getridou (Solo) -

Windecker (Solo) -
KI113R - 8 out of 10
RaZgRiZ - 8.5 out of 10
Swatllama - 6 out of 10
Misan - 7 out of 10

Fixxxer (Solo) -
KI113R - 6.5 out of 10
RaZgRiZ - 5 out of 10
Swatllama - 7 out of 10
Misan - 7 out of 10

wohSiesta (Solo) -

LR7 (Solo) -
KI113R - 3 out of 10
RaZgRiZ - 2 out of 10
Misan - 3 out of 10

Akari/Avior (Duo) -

Shuzo/Nieb (Duo) -

TristamK (Solo) -

LURKing (Solo) -
KI113R - 7 out of 10
RaZgRiZ - 7.5 out of 10
Misan - 8 out of 10
Swatllama - 8 out of 10

Rabe (Solo) -

Competition starts on the 1st of March but sign up does not end until the 3rd. Deadline for map completion is April 18th.

The prizes will be as follows:

$25 for 1st plus one AAA game -

One AAA game for 2nd -

One AAA game 3rd -
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on March 07, 2021, 02:58:18 AM
It's only been a few days since the competition started but I think it's a good time to check up on our competitors.

Word is that Fixxer is nearly done already. Having said "Dude at this pace I will be done way too early, but I can't stop once I started"

Though I haven't seen it yet. Let's see if he uses the extra time he has to make something that will really impress the judges.

Mmeaninglessnamee has an interesting concept in the works. "The layout is still a WIP, because it's a bit large and is more of a three-room deal compared to the typical central arena of most Sauer maps"

Gmiz has a name already for his map. "Imprisoned" and has worked up an image for it in his spare time.


With design skills like that I am sure we'll see something good from Gmiz in the coming weeks.

Moving onto Getridou. He has shared some screenshots showing a ton of progress already this early.


And of course as always an impressive artistic concept with a neon glowing pyramid as a backdrop.


Speaking of backdrops, Windecker has what appears to be the biggest piece of scenery I think I have ever seen for a map. What will the playable area be like?


WohSiesta has a new map model for us


I know plenty of places already where I could use something like that.

Also, Shuzo just got started today with his layout.


After running around a bit I think it's still too early to say how it will turn out but I am sure it will be great in the end.

Not much else to update from the other competitors. Not this early at least. Hopefully, this weekend and the following will have more content to talk about and be excited about.

It's always great to see a coop edit server full of a few people running around and hanging out.


Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: shuzo on March 07, 2021, 11:38:07 AM
Already seeing some good stuff. Excited to see the results!
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on March 17, 2021, 12:48:30 PM
A little more of an update.

Shuzo is starting to smooth out his terrain on the tribute to Hayo Myazakis Nausicaa Valley of the Wind.


Rolling right on along with the terrain as well is Fixxxer. We can also get a peek finally at his layout.


And more map models from WohSiesta. But don't worry, he has a layout too.


He has also said "I'm trying to do some technical things more so than designing a map
I have custom build that does an insane amount of light calculations." Those lights do look great. Hopefully he has time for some map designing at the end.


Getridou continues to make rapid progress showing off more of his unique style. I especially like these place holders for the armors.


And LURKing has a cozy little office space for us to explore. Inspired by a CS:GO map. It will be exciting to see how the gameplay ends up with these details.


LR7 said he may have a reveal of his map for us soon. Also saying "As busy as I've been with live outside the PC, next week ill reveal a preview of my map that isn't Omegle-Stream and may even stream it on twitch or youtube." That was on the 11th so we should be seeing that soon.

I know Akari and Avior have a little progress on their map. Maybe It will be tough for them to finish in between other tournaments?

There is still 3 weekends left though. So anything can happen.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on March 30, 2021, 04:06:32 AM
Our next update also comes with news of a 2 week extension. The competition will now end on the 18th of April. That is final.

Moving onto our competitors with the least finished maps that really needed this extension...

Here is our first image from Rabe:

Not much yet but at least there is a start. Let's hope it develops into more with 3 weeks now left.

Same for TristamK. We have a little more layout with his it seems though.

Getridou is continuing to show some tricks he has up his sleeves. He has a really cool looking, ruby laced rock texture.

This extension should give him an advantage over others as he has what seems to be the most complete map so far. With the extra time he will be able to polish more of it. No excuses for mistakes now :P

Windecker also has some more Paradise like screenshots to show us.

Had a chance to do a little playtesting on it. It's fun so far. Should be a fun and well received public map. Who knows how the competitive scene will receive it?

Fixxxer is currently working on what will be a 3rd map intended for the competition. It will be interesting to see which one he chooses to enter officially and why he thinks it's better than the other two.

Soyuz says "So i have a map lain out but im reconsidering my approach. i cant say wether or not ill finish in time"

That was before the extension was announced.

Stay tuned for the next update!
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: LR7 on March 31, 2021, 06:32:54 AM
Man its been awhile since I've logged on this side [8.0]

So far I've gotten a few details changed and some adjustments will be made like fitting the map I made on a 12 into a 10 of my map some how even if I've been real busy with life outside of Sauer [X.x]

Some of you guys are ahead of me in most aspects [8_0]

Also this Friday around 7PM PST I'll be Streaming a portion of the process on either ( or (

So maybe KI113R can keep an eye on my progress alittle better [>.0]/

And no i'm not using the Omegle-Stream map this time around [<~<]/

Til then I'll keep you guys posted on Discord [^~^]/
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on April 08, 2021, 06:20:23 PM
Sadly there will be no more progress to report of Getridou as he has asked to be excluded from the competition. The map was really looking great and I am sure many of us look forward to seeing it once it is complete anyways.

In other news, Nieb has officially joined Shuzo and is working to help complete his map on time. Reportedly contributing custom textures and map models which will no doubt be essential in representing the world they are trying to create. Shuzo says "I finished all of the playable terrain btw. working on shaping the rest of the cavern now :) but there's been good progress". And I can confirm. While I didn't have any of the custom textures or models yet, what could be seen of the terrain looked very complete and polished.

Normally when the competitors send me images to post I choose only a few to highlight but with Lurkings map there is so much many little details that I can not choose only a couple. They all show something really unique. So here are 5 of them :D






Our closest look at a complete entry thus far. Just look at those little cups stacked in the break room!

I don't want to count him down and out yet but WohSiesta is understandably busy with life outside Sauer as many of us are. There is still a little progress to report from him though.



Even without a complete map now, we will definitely appreciate the new assets he worked so hard to create. That alone deserves merit.

Mmeaninglessnamee has some layout taking shape after he got done finalizing his ideas on paper.



Glad to have something to report from him.

And LR7 did stream his map progress as he mentioned above. Be sure to check it out.

That's all I have for this update. 2 more weekends to go. I took a guess that at this point it looks like only 4 maps will be completed. To which Tristam replied "Seems he underestimates people who do everything at the last moment". Indeed, anything can happen and I hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on April 19, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
The competition has come to an end. I have modified the initial post with links to the completed maps.

The judges will now review them. Please also feel free to download them and give your insights.

I think it could be easy to be discouraged by the number of DNFs but we did get 3 amazing maps to review and deliberation will be tough. We can also be encouraged to know that most of these competitors did at least start maps and I think many of them plan to finish, so keep an eye out for those. That goal of the competition was at least a success. Getting mappers to start some new layouts.

Fixxxer and Lurking both completed 2 maps in the allotted time. Both of them decided to submit the later attempt. Both maps you have not yet seen screenshots of so it will be a great surprise for many of you.

Check back to see our reviews as they go up and find out who will win $25. All three competitors who turned in a completed map will also get to choose one free AAA game from Razgriz's backlog of unclaimed games.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on April 22, 2021, 01:35:11 PM
LR7 did finish in time, he just had some packaging issues that we had to get corrected. His map is now linked for download as well.

Here are some things that the community is already saying about these maps, including some of the competitors themselves.

Jomra — 04/19/2021
holy moly windecker

BATMAN — 04/19/2021
its gr8 map windecker!

p1x — 04/19/2021
wow, the cliffside map from the mapping competition has some seriously hard-to-reach flags

nopnotme — 04/19/2021
Windecker has a really well put-together map and great design. The backdrop is a great addition to the map but might take frame tolls on lower end pc's
Fixxxer has a good layout and approach but i think there are some sections that feel rushed, like the empty rooms with circle window sections and bars , maybe due to time restraint but has more potential then as-is.

Lurk did a good job here with a nice ocean side map, I think my only complaint here is that with a default size 10 you only used 1/4 of it and there is no geometry border around the water which creates a glitch'y water bug

Jomra — 04/20/2021
Regarding Lurk, I like the creative decision of having the water cut off
RaZgRiZ — 04/19/2021
early tl;dr is, impressive work, but unless he was running out of time and had to rush it out, jake (Windecker) needs QC chasing after him :smile:

TristamK — 04/19/2021
Nice map Lurk. Looks sweet. I would expand the boundaries of the map to avoid such graphical artifacts. Under the terms of the contest, this could be done

Windecker — 04/19/2021
show me the oops! there are gonna be a few. I kinda procrastinated and then slaved away trying to get done in time. D;

Windecker — 04/21/2021
I feel okay. I really like cliffside.

Fixxxer — 04/21/2021
the truth is that i think i did well and i am proud of myself for what i made... like expressed before killer, i am just happy to be in the tournament and share in the experience, i feel i have come far already but dude i have so much more to learn before i can get to real map making peoples level
i can tell you that i feel a lot better about in10sety then what i did with deathx, i really focused on the textures and made sure not to have a bland map and give people a clear indication of where they are on the map at any given time, i am very ecstatic about my entry and regret nothing :slight_smile:

LurKing — 04/21/2021
I feel pretty good, already fixed mistakes people were complaining about
From the chandelier in the red church to the "Weird-looking" sea
But honestly, I knew Windecker would win the moment I saw that temple
But I'm not complaining, not at all, the contest was a lot of fun and I'm happy for him

Do you think you know who will win based on the community chatter? Nothing is set in stone yet. The judges are still deliberating and will post some in depth reviews that should clearly explain their pick for the winner.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on April 24, 2021, 07:17:22 PM
I am going to start with Fixxxers map first since I know Razgriz started with Windeckers map first.

Let's start right off with the bad and work our way into the good.

First thing we have is a texture error. oops! nothing major though, easily fixed in post.


Besides that there aren't any glaring texture mistakes besides what I would consider to be personal preferences. More on those in a minute.

If we compare this map to previous Fixxer staples I've got to say that it's actually very unique. And not something I think I would have picked out as a fixxxer map when next to his other maps. Even his map Deathx made immediately prior to this. What makes it so different you ask? The textures! What a breath of fresh air and a bold step out of Fixxxers comfort zone. Definitely an attempt by fixxxer at improving his skills that I think paid off big time.

While the map overall does still have a drab grey tone to it, the greenery helps break it up. Along with a couple of different light sources that vary in design enough to keep the textures from getting too boring.

That doesn't mean that there aren't still areas with boring, repetitive textures. Like for example this room


Just a little too much of those two marble textures with no real source of light.

I am also not too excited about the use of these egypt bricks.


They don't quite fit the theme. I think I would have preferred the same yellowish brick as the building behind it along with some other design elements to help break it up. But again, maybe thats just personal preference.

One thing I also think fixxxer could do better is texture transitions. A lot of these textures are butted right up against each other. Some areas can be gotten away with but areas like this can be a bit hard to explain in reality.


The red brick right up against the yellow brick. Hmmmm.

Here is an example of where he did it right.


The metal trim strip separating the wood and the brick is a nice touch.

V commands are very useful for making wood textures more believable. It's a big peeve of mine and since I know I mentioned this to fixxxer prior, he gets graded on it ;D


There are a lot of unnatural, conflicting wood grains here that one command can easily fix to make it much more believable.

Here is how it maybe should look with Vrotate 1


Aside from textures we can move onto geometry. And there is not much bad to say about that. Fixxxer doesn't have a real problem with geometry it seems. Aside from the ugly ladders that plague his maps. Those need work. However, let's step aside from the negatives and appreciate some of the beautiful scenes he has created.







Some awesome architecture going on there and I have nothing but praises to sing about that and the little details he used to fill the map with.

I think details like this are new to him.


Perhaps before that would have just been a blank wall. But now I see a feature that reminds me of something Misan would make. It really adds character to the map.

Now I would like to move onto what little I can contribute with regards to gameplay. Which surprisingly is where my two biggest problems with the map lie.

First, the clipping is a bit too much in some areas.

Like a couple of these entry ways.


The worst spot is this wall


Third person view of me right up against the clip.


I am nowhere near the wall. It's just a bit awkward.

By far though my biggest issue with the map is that it feels unfinished. There is a large portion of the map that is gated off but has many of it's details done already.




Many of the gated entrances feel like dead ends that could have led right into this cohesive, existing layout.



And I think opening this area would aid in making the quad damage area much better by adding another way in over by the monster map model.


That's it for my review of In10sity by Fixxxer. A breath of fresh air that shows his constant improvement.

Ill provide an actual number rating once I write the other reviews.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on April 26, 2021, 10:06:56 PM
And now Cliffside by LurKing


That's exactly what it is too. A Lurking map. Like Zamak and his Office map prior, He has the ability to create very defined scenes. You know what it is and where you are but he leaves just enough to the imagination so that you can still build a world around his map. All the details are there in the forefront with simplicity as the backdrop to let your imagination run away.





That doesn't mean that there aren't still areas where it feels a bit restrictive for gameplay. The map has a fair share of narrow walkways and small rooms that could have benefitted overall from being just a bit bigger.

Like here for example, a low ceiling with a narrow staircase. Maybe a ladder would have been better?


Clipping and no clipping is done pretty well.


There is a small issue here by the flags where you can get stuck easily that should be fixed.


And yes I did say flags. This is a mirrored ctf map, excluding the two different church designs. In a way I see this as a bit of a cop out. It's already small, and now also mirrored. Just because it's a ctf map doesn't mean that it wont get judged on other aspects of gameplay. Like the fact that there are two health boosts. One in each church and one quad damage in the center of the map.


On a map of this size it would have been a better decision to forgo the quad damage altogether and instead place a single heathboost in its place.

The rest of the placements seem decent enough and I cant really offer too much direction on those.

There are very few errors in this map. I contribute this mainly to the small size and mirroring. Though Lurking does have a detailed eye that no doubt helped make it what it is.

One that issue that is of controversy is the waterline. Even with what was clearly a conscious decision to manage time, there are ways to make this atrocity look better.


Speaking of atrocities. This is an awful circle.


With those two things out of the way I will move on to what is likely just nitpicking. I do not like these lights.


Of all the details Lurking is capable of, these seem so lazy and rushed.

With a map so seemingly free of texture errors I set out to find one. And that's all I found. ONE. If you can even call it that.


The selected area here should probably be the yellow brick. It's hardly noticeable though.

That brings me into something I really appreciate about the map. Which is the nice choice of red and yellow building accents to compliment the red and blue of the two opposing sides.

Lastly. As I mentioned before the maps is just a bit on the small side. With a little expansion, it could be a lot more interesting and fun. One such way to improve on the fun would be to make the flags a little easier to get.

Lurking did add some clever climable details here to get in from the side.


But without that cumbersome approach, there is only one real direction to attack from. Which makes defending too easy.

A good way to add some variation would be to allow flag running across the rooftops. You can get on top of the roofs now but then from there they only lead back down and funnel you to the same points of attack.

I think some pergolas or something on top of these three buildings here would allow travel across the map via roof.


I'll call that quits for Lurkings map Cliffside. Beautiful and mostly without editing errors, it still leaves some to be desired. A map made with time-saving decisions could benefit with just a little more time shown.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on May 01, 2021, 05:40:35 PM
WaterCave is an ambitiously large, mostly terrain map from LR7.

Still within the limits of a size 10 map and originally larger before I reminded him that size 10 was the limit. Is going this big going to pay off?


Doing terrain in Sauer is notoriously tedious and difficult to master. With only a few, the likes of Misan, Nieb and Redon able to master it and make it look easy. While yes, there is a tool to make that a bit easier, that tool has limits and you won't find any of the masters using it. Unfortunately, LR7 has found many of the limits that height mapping has. Squared off transitions, broken and high tension cubes, varying grid powers, jagged edges and so on. Some of these issues can be solved with a little manual labor when using height map sparingly. This map does not use height map sparingly and any issues that could have been corrected end up taking more time in the end than just creating terrain cube by cube.

Here is one such example of the kind of errors that exist throughout the map because of the heavy reliance on height mapping.


Now not every map needs to have buttery smooth terrain like Gorge or OW. The jagged edges of the map could be attributed to an artistic choice for a more natural-looking stone. However, I would argue that there is still nothing quite natural about it. There are ways to make a natural, jagged-looking stone without such hash and pointy geometry. Not too common in Sauer but it has been done before successfully.

The best place to show the unnatural look to it is at the mouth of the cave.


Outside of that, it's even a bit difficult to consider the map "finished" with as many completely untouched or missing cubes that there are.






At some point I have to stop pointing out issues. There are light errors, even with only 12 lights. There are 3 health boosts, 3 quad damages and only 2 bases. There are floating map models. There are theme inconsistencies and more. To show examples for all of them would be overkill at this stage.

I think that I have to consider this map unfinished. LR7's vision here is better suited as an artistic concept map. Even then it is a long way from being done. There is a lot that still needs to be done and fixed. I give him credit for working hard to turn in something at all when so many others didn't. However, the choice to create something so large and with mostly terrain, and using outdated editing techniques did not pay off.

It is not my goal to crush this map with this review. Lr7 has a great eye for things. It's just possible that a timed competition with its rules was not a great setting for this creation. I think this could even be expanded on with more time to an interesting race map or art piece.
Title: Re: KI113R%u2019s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: Misan on May 01, 2021, 06:02:32 PM
Hi there! :)
I'll also give my five cents regarding cliffside.
Other map reviews will follow.

Cliffside By LURKing

This map has almost everything a deathmatch or ctf map needs. That is some really good Sauerbraten release material here.
I decided to split the review into 4 parts

Design & Geometry

One thing I want to point out up front: For a month worth of level design for this competition, the map really looks well designed and balanced. And taking into account you have made one map for ~3 weeks and then decided to work on an entirely new map is pretty astounding.

One thing that definitely was done right on this map was the blendmap. Thumbs up for that!

There are however a few details that would have been nice. That would make this a memorable map. I think given the deadline you have made the best effort to make sure the details that went into the map are highly visible and well placed.
Except for one thing. It is almost a shame that the thing that really stands out on the map is so well hidden - and that is the inside of the chapel/church building.

The church is unfortunately a dead end (with a purpose, more to that later), so you don't end up there naturally, only to take a risk to grab the healthboost. Other than that, it is a really well designed place.

In any map, I look for a specific landmark that intuitively makes my subconscious know: "ah, here is where I am". I just noticed that the churches look different, so that is a good way to differentiate bases besides color.
While every building is correctly marked in the team color, red and blue, and the flags also show you which way the enemy is, I feel that something is missing.


I feel like I'm in greece. That part is well made!

The environment around the playable map would have been the perfect place to remind the player where they are.
Maybe a little temple on the top of the mountain or a summit cross would have helped to make one of the sides (red/blue) really stand out.
Or a tiny fishers house at the beach, a boat in the distance (like Windecker did with Semiramus)
But there is one thing that I really like of this map: Nobody has done a greek style map before, at least not in that outstanding quality!

For a theme like that, a tiny bit more verticality would have helped to make it more interesting, as it is known for the typical greek islands. At least there are the roofs.
Overall you have done a good job on making it good looking.
There are other places that could have needed details as well. The rooms are all looking really bland. Maybe paintings, plants or bookshelves would give it a bit more diversity. Compared to the very detailed map you made previously (the office), it feels like these rooms were given the least love.

One last thing regarding the beach: Maybe a fishing place or a storage depot would give the map a bit more diversity compared to the purely stone buildings.
There is one negative thing that is making my heart as level designer bleed. Something that would have been an easy fix: The suddenly cut off ocean.
Making a bigger map that fades into the fog is a no brainer. You get these awful cutoffs and graphics bugs with Sauerbraten otherwise:


The first thing I did, when I was loading the map, was to explore the beach. Dang - I'm dead. There is nothing much that points out that the beach is a no-no for players. Making it a bit deeper would have shown the player that he could die from depth. Otherwise the little place where you can stand barely makes sense.
I would probably have made it dent out or give a little pillar to stand on to place another hard to reach goodie. Something like this:

Or this to help the flow of the map.

Like any good CTF map, it offers different paths that allow for a quick grab (middle lane), sneaky stealth path (bottom lane) and a mix of both with the top lane.
With some of the goodies being on the roofs, you have given a good balance between too open (dangerous for the player) and bonus for taking the risk.
Other very good examples of that balance can be found with the healthboosts as part of a dead end (if somebody sneaks up, you could have trouble getting out again). Or with the quaddamage being hard to reach, giving other players enough time to stop you. But once you are up there, you have an open space to hit almost anything that moves on that map. I couldn't come up with a better place for the quad than that!

I really like the fountain that you even gave a purpose: they provide health.
There are little windows that you placed grenades in front of, that intuitively give the player an idea: "hey, I can spam grenades in there to stop the enemy" I like that thinking!
Sniper rifles go on roofs - that is also a good choice
All the other pickups are fine. There is enough health.
The windows feel too little sometimes. Maybe a door would be better for entry nearby the flag.

Lighting & Sound

It is quick and dirty but it works.
In my opinion, the light inside the houses could be a bit more warm (orange/red).
Original: (
My change: (

All the lights except for the church are set to maximum white (255, 255, 255). Which makes it look a bit artificial (given that it is a modern map, it is almost okay)
But that rusty warm look would give these rooms a bit more

I am a bit disappointed by the glass lamps inside the buildings. Considering that even though the map looks pretty medieval or old, there are park benches that give it a modern touch. So it almost justifies the modern lamps. But they still look odd, with no real light source visible in the middle


I'll post a ranking of my favorite maps once I'm done rating all maps.

Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on May 08, 2021, 07:19:51 PM
I've been putting off my review of Semiramus because it's absolutely daunting. I can only imagine the actual work to create it. Maybe that's Windeckers style? Daunting, intimidating, overwhelming. Think of the face on Alithia. It's like an intimidating all-seeing thing. Besides that, his other creative works have this same scale to them that is just off-putting. The anticipation and curiosity of what lies further.

This really is that. A huge looming structure overlooks the playable area. It really makes you wonder what's beyond the blocked doors. And although it is set in a cheery beach-side looking resort, it still has this eerieness to it. Making you question things yet again.

It is the very deliberate and also maybe creative interpretation of the rules that had Windecker creating a huge back drop to a map that is not small on its own, but certainly wouldn't feel right without it. Lets take a look.






But hey! Don't get lost on the size. While at first, it may seem perfect, there are still errors. Kind of a lot. Im sure Razgriz will find more, but here are the few I found.

Wrong texture shade used here


and here


and maybe here. I cant tell. If it was on purpose then it doesn't look right.


Also a little missing block here


Lastly, the most obvious and probably infuriating for Windecker, is this misplaced waterfall  ;D



All could be fixed within 5 minutes. Nothing major really.

I'd like to say that I find many of the ceilings to be a bit boring. It's a ceiling so I guess who really cares.



It seems I have to have a little nitpick on every map.

Another complement on the theme is that there is just enough blending to show some age. A little moss buildup on what might be considered the less-traveled areas.


However, this segways me into another peeve of mine similar to correctly rotated wood grain textures. While the moss blending shows some weathering, the map otherwise has perfectly kept architecture. EXCEPT in one spot and that's my issue.


Here it is next to the Health boost. It acts as an access point or escape route for the HB. I've never been a fan of adding damage to a map out of necessity to change the layout. It's like "Oops, this room needs another escape route but I can't do that without a complete redesign of the facing room. Let me just blow a giant hole in the wall here so I don't have to explain the horrible flow.". It's a bit of a Deus Ex Machina and it ruins the immersion. If there were other areas of crumbling brick and rotted wood it would make a little more sense. Consistency is important. I have the same feeling about this random plank.


Two other small things that probably aren't such a big deal is that I am not really happy with this jumppad in the middle of the hallway


Redesigning that would take a bit of thinking. The other side is perfect.

And also I can't help but wish there was a pickup of some sort on top of this platform here.


There are a lot of nice little details. I love the vcolor fades, they are a nice touch. Even on the large-scale items in the backdrop, there is just enough detail to make it look finished and not just like scenery.

The map is fun to play. Not really sure what mode it will lend itself to best at the moment. I don't see any competitive play on this, but that's not a bad thing. I think the majority will love the way it plays and I don't see why it won't be included in regular rotations.

Sorry for all the pictures on that one. There is a lot to show.

Windecker went for the wow factor. It has attention to detail but once again the time limit of the competition definitely showed its effects. It's a fun theme with fun gameplay.

With this being my final review I have updated the original post with my numerical scoring of the maps.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: swatllama on May 08, 2021, 08:08:55 PM
in10sity, by fixxxer

Fixxxer came out once again with another type of map he loves making - one for competitive pickup mode gameplay.

First of all, we should appreciate how far Fixxxer has come in his texturing compared to some of his other maps, like crypta, catacombs, and the original conflict for instance. A lot more effort went into picking a cohesive yet diverse set of textures here, and the results show.

I think the lighting falls short however. Internally in some rooms, we have vibrant, descriptive lighting

and then some flat,  boring lighting in many other spots, especially outside.

Now that the mapping issues are out of the way, let's analyze the gameplay.

Here is the layout from a top down perspective.
A lot of the map travels between the inside and outside, so you cannot see everything here. In the top right is the healthboost, and around the top left is one of the green armours. The YA is under about where my crosshair is on that screenshot, and the quad a bit to the left of it, inside a structure. What we can see here is that items are generally pretty well spread out from eachother.

What makes this such a strong layout for competitive 2v2? You're not limited by where you can go in relation to another part of the map. Take these screenshots for example.

There are so many ways you can move around from this one spot. Trying to run from a stacked guy who just got HB? There are 3 levels you can drop down to, and he won't have a sightline on which of the 3 you picked. Then once you drop down, there are just as many paths you can split off to; you can go to the center of the map over to the YA or even wrap around back to where the HB was; you can go into a corner and pick up MG and try to trap him; you can retreat backwards below onto green armour. It's not just that you can move around to so many places, but that each place has a purpose and leads somewhere meaningful (or that would be meaningful with pickups moved around).
I'm not a fan of the quad placement though. It's inside a place that's hard to get to, with only two ways in and out, one of which requires rocket/grenade jumping in, and the other is easily defendable by the team that gets there first.


I would've preferred placing the quad either where the HB is, or here as gorge has it.


Another viable place for quad is here, which would make it the same kind of clusterfuck as hator's YA, but perhaps interesting regardless.


At least, something should go there. And therein lies the issue with how the pickups are placed: While there's an appropriate number of all weapons, health, and items, it feels like they're almost scattered around the map with a lot of empty space. For instance, here, there are the big 3 weapons near to eachother

And then places like here, where the most easily accessibly adjacent weapons are all the situational ones that won't be especially useful in most types of fights.


I'd largely replace the item pickups before running this in a pool.

I would consider this a strong map. The layout is all there, the texturing is all there. The lighting could use some more work, and items could be moved around, but playing it is fun. As it stands in its current form, it probably wouldn't replace any competitive pool maps, but once improvements are made, it would certainly be stronger than at least 3 of the current pool maps. I'll give it a 7/10 for now.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: RaZgRiZ on May 27, 2021, 11:29:19 PM
Apologies everyone for the delay in my ratings. I had been preoccupied with life matters and it was constantly being pushed back. Thankfully, KI113R did the hard part of taking pictures of all the maps in his review so this saved me quite a bit of effort.

I shall be concise in what I perceive as a fault in a submission, and know that my focus falls on the looks/feeling of a map, and its issues. I'm not one for a lot of words unless I'm there in person with the mapper in question to provide feedback so hopefully no one's offended :P

So without further ado:

Semiramus by Windecker

A novel idea with a theme that hasn't been attempted before, with a scale that is awe-inspiring, even if most of the scenery is out of bounds.
Jumping in you'll definitely be overwhelmed by the absolutely humongous temple that lies beyond you, on a scale never before attempted unless we count the rpg maps.
Whether it's the compact maps or the larger scale ones, I've always been blown away, honestly. I'd say I'm a fan, do you have an OnlyFans?
Say, when will you finish that factory map with the green lava sludge? The detail in it was crazy for its time. Oh I'm sidetracked, back to business.

There exist several rough spots to consider despite all the eye candy. For example:

A. Inadequate structural support to seemingly heavier parts of the temple architecture.
B. Mistextured parts that slipped the creator's view, but are entirely within the map bounds to be visible.
C. Misaligned textures at various spots, though some of them are excused (blue vcolor brick walls, >pain<).
D. Early cutoff of blendmaps on floor surfaces, or blendmap on surfaces where it shouldn't exist.
E. Clipping of models through geometry (vegetation) or floating off the ground (palm trees).
G. Seemingly improper use of artificial vcolor shading at places -- this i'm uncertain of.
H. Fog distance too short to hide map boundaries, but also too much as it hides the main attaction, the temple.
I. Background architecture appears to be waaay too white compared to the playable area, unnaturally so.
J. Misaligned sunlight as shadows not line up with the skybox, and the lightprecision is not well adjusted for scale.
K. While minor, there exist a few holes inside of walls, and some cornerwork appears to have mistakes/holes visible.

These issues aside, many of which were due to time constraints, it is hands-down the best looking submission of the bunch in terms of looks.
Jake does not disappoint, year after year, dude's got talent. Despite the points I made above, big points for the blending attempts and the grand scale.
Oh and also for using sounds in general. A map can look good, but if it doesn't sound good, something's definitely missing.

For the general ratings:

Looks: 1st place
Atmosphere: 1st place
Issues: 3rd place

Cliffside by LURking

An original, although tiny, ctf map themed after greek island architecture. Fair bit of careful work and good looks that'd definitely make release.
I'm actually surprised by his growth. I remember some of his earlier map attemps. Boxy, weird, overly detailed spots, rough spot that were meant to be round, clipping that'd make a 10-year-old cry..
Man how time flies, I feel like I'm watching my own child grow and learn and become better every day. Brings a tear to my eye. No wait, that's the water mat against the skybox.

There are only minor rough spots to talk about (except that big one), being the cleanest map of the bunch:

A. Lighting is blue and harsh, making the white buildings pop in a weird way that tires the eyes. Making the sunlight yellow and increasing intensity is much better.
B. Some models clip in each other and thus do not get lit properly, like the weeds in the planted palm trees.
C. Minor misaligned textures on the rockfaces due to being pushed the wrong way around and one on a building trim as KI113R pointed out.
D. Map could have utilized the extra room on the sides to hide the water boundary to a degree, potentially through means a river-like beach? I'd accept a larger scale map if it's to hide the boundary well.
E. The sounds are a bit repetitive and not entirely fitting of the setting. The sea is too far to be heard unless you die over there typically, and the bird kind of.. 90's sounding.
F. The rock models do not really fit here. I do appreciate you using them, but they stick out like sore thumbs -- literally.

Despite these issues, I can tell that he paid quite a bit of attention to eliminate most of them prior to submitting his latest work.
All my time nagging him about stuff in his other maps and showing him how to hunt for "bugs" seems to have helped quite a bit. Keeping a clean map as you go means less of a mess to clean later.
He has the drive to try some off-brand ideas with his maps which I like. I recommend experimenting with lighting more to create neat lightscapes and contrast, you can still up your game considerably.

For the general ratings:

Looks: 2nd place
Atmosphere: 2nd place
Issues: 1st place

in10sity by Fixxxer

Missed your chance to name it in10city to make a pun off your theme, docking points! I have mixxxed feelings about this one. Knowing some of his previous work,
it is quite clear that he is experimenting and trying to expand his work into more complex themes. A cityscape is one tough nut to pull off.

From the look of things, the layout itself feels inspired by Quake, thought it might just be me. Ledges are very tall and wide, the architecture dwarfing the player.
Unfortunately, this theme overwhelmed Fixxxer from the looks of it, because it's kind of a mess. It doesn't appear he had a solid plan for what kind of city theme
to go for, be it futuristic, simply modern, rustic, steampunk, middle-ages or whatever. The texturework is a mishmash of a little bit of everything and it shows.

A. No coherent city theme to immerse yourself in, it's a loose pile of.. bricks, I suppose.
B. Lighting is a weakpoint as well, with strong, harsh lights at points and plain ambience otherwise. The mix of two is not harmonious.
C. Clipping is a bit all over the place and was not thoroughly tested, possibly due to time constraints.
D. A part of the map is basically blocked off with iron bars, despite being entirely playable and not optimized as background scenery.
E. No sounds whatsoever, leaving the map eeriely quiet.
G. Mixed model assets, some of which are practically ancient from the first days of sauer. Some clip in geometry, others are spammed and lit improperly.
H. Texturing cohesion is similarly non-existent, where one part of a wall is metal and the other brick, or a pillar made of crushed cement. More textures isn't more better.
I. No backscene optimization for non-accessible areas. Clip is likewise missing at spots, meaning one could potentially glitch in an out of bounds area.

Phew. Definitely a good effort from Fixxxer, and I urge him to keep trying to become better. Your layouts are liked by people, but you definitely need some assistance to get your themes going the right direction.
Work hard and be critical with yourself when you want to up the quality of your work further. If you find something doesn't feel right, think of why that is, and then consider alternatives.
You could even get other people, like in this case, to run around and point out what they feel is weird to them. If you think it makes sense, remember in your heart these points you didn't consider before.
This way you will grow cynical like me and never finish anything in time ever! :D You're welcome!

As for the ratings now:

Looks: 3rd place.
Atmosphere: 4th place.
Issues: 3rd place.

WaterCave by LR7

Oh man. Where to even start. I'll get to the main point first.

Looks: 4th place
Atmosphere: 3rd place
Issues: 4th place

This submission is the definition of a work in progress, an alpha. The premise of the map is something akin to a deep crater with temple entrances on the rock faces.
As pointed by others, most of the work on the terrain, and there is MOSTLY terrain, was done through heightmapping. It's a shitty tool. You will only want to use it for basic groundwork.
Preferably for mostly flat surfaces, using the noise tool and then smoothening out. If you want steeper angles, do it all manually. The terrain is rough, broken at places, unfinished at others.
The choice of rock texture likely also hid quite a lot of mistakes. Should have either picked a lighter rock texture, or changed outline colors, though that's the least of my concerns.

The idea is ambitious and grand, but unfortunately nowhere near completion. Everything looks like a rough mockup, and plays like it too. Lighting is pretty much missing. No sounds either. Clipping is similarly pointless at this point of development, before most of the geometry has had a chance to be polished. Points for the blending attempt, though that's more of an end-game concern.

Well.. I can't give much constructive criticism on this when it's this early in its development cycle. It's pretty much the definition of a participation award.
Better luck next time ^_^

For whoever stuck around reading my old man opinions, congratulations, you've thus lost a part of your soul to me and are a little less of a human as a result.
The final ratings from myself are as follows:

1st place: Semiramus : 8.5 overall
2nd place: Cliffside : 7.5 overall
3rd place: in10sity : 5 overall
"I was here too!" award: WaterCave : there was an effort of 2 overall

Do note that my scoring has no basis on gameplay and fluidity, but rather is hard-based on how good-looking a map is, as well as polish (or lack thereof) put into it prior to submission.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: swatllama on June 01, 2021, 05:12:48 AM

I think Razgriz already went over some of the mapping issues with this, so I'll table more mention of any I would notice. Let's instead marvel at how pretty the map is.



So, how does it play? I'll admit, I didn't bother testing it - the layout, being nearly symmetric, doesn't lend itself to competitive ffa or teamplay for 2v2/3v3. The flow to get around to items isn't exactly fluid from every spot, as some paths you have to travel are forcing. By that, I mean that you can get very close geometrically to a place, but you suddenly cannot actually get there. Take this for example:
From this POV, you can't get up to that ledge - I forget what's up there, but it's some item or weapons. From that ledge, you cant' dget down to here. This itself is not a problem, but there's no quick way to traverse between the two. If this were a rare case, it would be fine, but there are more such instances.

Many of the weapons seem placed fairly arbitrarily. The HB and YA are put in gimmicky spots that are hard to access and you have to jump across open water to get to - fine for a map that'll be played for public deathmatch (which doesn't really have a scene in Sauer), but not something I'd want to see much of in a competitive map.

The map is remarkably beautiful. I would like to see bases put in intelligent positions so it can be played for regen capture, although I'm not a huge fan of mostly-symmetric regen maps either. As for a deathmatch map specifically, I'm not sure it holds up to what I would envision as an ideal gameplay map for DM.

Compositing the looks, item placement, and what I suspect the playability to be, I would give semiramus a solid 6/10 of a map.

Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on June 11, 2021, 09:24:53 PM
From Misan -

Alright.. I postponed it long enough.
Here is my rating:
gameplay: how well designed is the playable area and balance of pickups + their implied strategy.
immersion: how well do I feel the atmosphere, age, theme and surroundings
aesthetics: how well shaped are the parts in general? bug-free and appealing details.
map, total rating, (gameplay, immersion, aesthetics)
Cliffside: 8/10 (9, 7, 7)
Semiramus: 7/10 (5, 10, 7)
In10sity:  7/10 (7, 7, 8)
WaterCave: 3/10 (1, 4, 5)
Although Semiramus looks really good, the gameplay leaves a lot to ask for in my opinion, positioning it closely behind Cliffside.
In10sity is a robust DM map, but the theming feels a bit mixed to me. I am not really sure if I am in a factory, an urban city, a park or all of the above. Also there are barely landmarks, making orientation inside the labyrinth a little tricky and it takes a lot of getting used to.
WaterCave is obviously made with love, but lacks the thorough experience to really contend with the rest of the masterpieces that were delivered. Terrain is hard, especially for a beginner. Buildings look fine though. In terms of gameplay, I can only recommend to test this with ~8 bots and see if it is fun to play. The lack of reachable ammo, the very open map makes it hard to play
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: swatllama on June 12, 2021, 04:05:20 PM

This map is beautiful, in a different way from Semiramus. While semiramus had a majestic vibe about it, Cliffside has a feeling of visiting some small European town with a bunch of quaint shops, old people, and lacking in brothels despite having a rich religious history. The lighting isn't intense in any part, but it just works. It's like Nieb's outdoor lighting, but more subdued from his typically bright sun.


This beach is a very cute addition, although it kills you.

But this is not a deathmatch map at all. It's a symmetric CTF map, which may also be fun for regen capture.

The texturing looks nice. It's very well themed, and none of them look out of place.

The attention to detail in places that people probably won't go in very often, such as the church, is really good too, with the altar, cross, and even the circular arrangement of candles up top.


My main criticism of this map is that everything feels scaled way too small. It needs to go up 1.5x or even 2x, or around there.

I'd give this map an 8/10 since I think the only work that really needs to be done to make it a very fun public iCTF map is that it needs scaling.
Title: Re: KI113R’s Deathmatch Mapping Competition - Discussion and Review Board
Post by: KI113R on June 16, 2021, 04:19:37 PM
I want to say that the majority may have pegged Windecker as the sure winner of this competition with his impressive visuals but as it turns out a consistent hand and clear gameplay purpose really impressed the judges the most, leading Lurking to the top.

I want to thank everyone for participating and keeping up with this competition and ask that you check back for a future competition with another cash prize.